Troymx576 Posted March 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 Still researching. Going over options and here is what I am leaning towards now. Volvo 420/430 and make it short. It has the shortest cab and not tall. This might look the least big commercial rig for getting pulled over. I have options get a longer trailer and be within 65’. The shorter wheelbase will be easier around town. Some questions on wheelbase and length the the cab. I think the wheel base is the same as the 670 from what I can tell. Does anyone know the distance from the front bumper to the center of the rear front axle? Also the front bumper to the rear of the cab. I am thinking about the hitch location for the gooseneck and then from that hitch location forward to the cab. Then I can know what size trailer I can look for. Right now I see a 44’ that is nice and a 48’. With the 48’ then I would need the hitch location, which would be less than 17’. Would that be possible? Thanks again for the help. I wonder if you all pondered options like this when you choose to get one? Also, after looking at trucks I might have to somehow up my budget to like 20k to get a good and nice one. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from SoCal Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 Troy, The Volvo web site shows the newer short sleeper cab at 156" and with the cab extensions 164". The first number is what you want to consider swing clearance. That sounds encouraging BUT, a race trailer with the pin at or near the front needs the distance from the pin and some margin to turn. A 102" wide trailer would need 51" plus some dip clearance, say 5" that means the closest the back of the cab to trailer distance could be is 56". The pin on a 48' trailer would have to be at least 8" from the front of the trailer to hit the 65' mark. Semi trailers have the pin anywhere from 16-48" depending on use, most van trailers have 36" pins or deeper. The swing on a trailer with front overhang is different than a trailer with the pin at the front like most gooseneck ball hitches. The 48' trailer could work depending on where the king pin is or where the ball is. That 51" number is an absolute min plan on 54" for any trailer from the hitch to the back of the cab. The cab extensions are designed with a semi van close coupled, a 102" wide semi trailer with a 36" or deeper king pin has the fifth wheel positioned to allow the truck to jack knife. A race trailer with the hitch forward would not be able to jack knife with the extensions in place AND close coupled to the cab. For each trailer you look at, the placement of the hitch is as important as overall length to compute combination length. A 44' gooseneck trailer with the gooseneck ahead of the front of the trailer will still need that 54" to jack knife. Trailers with fifth wheel hitches set back from the nose of the trailer offer the best choices for max combination length. A 48' drop frame van with a 36" pin will easily stay under 65', a 48' race trailer maybe maybe not. Steve 2005 Peterbilt 387-112 Baby Cat 9 speed U-shift 1996/2016 remod Teton Royal Atlanta 1996 Kentucky 48 single drop stacker garage project Pulls like a train, sounds like a plane....faster than a Cheetah sniffin cocaine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Wright Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Troymx576 said: ...I think the wheel base is the same as the 670 from what I can tell. Does anyone know the distance from the front bumper to the center of the rear front axle? Also the front bumper to the rear of the cab... The cab on a 630/670 is 19" longer than the 430. The 730/780 cab is 35" longer than a 430. There is no standard wheelbase length on HDTs. Bumper to back of cab (BBC): 430 - 154", 630 - 173", 730 - 189". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troymx576 Posted March 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Steve from SoCal said: Troy, The Volvo web site shows the newer short sleeper cab at 156" and with the cab extensions 164". The first number is what you want to consider swing clearance. That sounds encouraging BUT, a race trailer with the pin at or near the front needs the distance from the pin and some margin to turn. A 102" wide trailer would need 51" plus some dip clearance, say 5" that means the closest the back of the cab to trailer distance could be is 56". The pin on a 48' trailer would have to be at least 8" from the front of the trailer to hit the 65' mark. Semi trailers have the pin anywhere from 16-48" depending on use, most van trailers have 36" pins or deeper. The swing on a trailer with front overhang is different than a trailer with the pin at the front like most gooseneck ball hitches. The 48' trailer could work depending on where the king pin is or where the ball is. That 51" number is an absolute min plan on 54" for any trailer from the hitch to the back of the cab. The cab extensions are designed with a semi van close coupled, a 102" wide semi trailer with a 36" or deeper king pin has the fifth wheel positioned to allow the truck to jack knife. A race trailer with the hitch forward would not be able to jack knife with the extensions in place AND close coupled to the cab. For each trailer you look at, the placement of the hitch is as important as overall length to compute combination length. A 44' gooseneck trailer with the gooseneck ahead of the front of the trailer will still need that 54" to jack knife. Trailers with fifth wheel hitches set back from the nose of the trailer offer the best choices for max combination length. A 48' drop frame van with a 36" pin will easily stay under 65', a 48' race trailer maybe maybe not. Steve Thsnks Steve. I had to look at your numbers and Volvo and now it makes sense. Looking at the 40, 44 and 48 trailers. Some come with triple 10k axles and total of weight 30k. I wonder what weight I would put on the rear single axle. It might be better to keep it tandem and get a shorter one. Or if a shorter one in the 40’ range might not have as much weight on the hitch, but by how much is the real questions. It would be nice to have a shorter truck if possible. Also, some of the trailers have AC units on the front so there might be more thought on clearance of the cab. Lots of things to ponder for sure. I might just have to stay in the 40 or 44 range it seems. 40’ would fit tandem axle pretty easy. 44’ I am not sure. Thoughts on the 44’ tandem? Thsnks troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 It might be simpler to find a converted commercial trailer than use a "race trailer". Most of the measuring and calculating would be unnecessary. Racing junk should have a nice selection......... Use the standard commercial fifth wheel hitch too. KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troymx576 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 52 minutes ago, rickeieio said: It might be simpler to find a converted commercial trailer than use a "race trailer". Most of the measuring and calculating would be unnecessary. Racing junk should have a nice selection......... Use the standard commercial fifth wheel hitch too. The comercail trailer would not be set up the way I would need. The race trailers have all the benches, tool boxex, storage, stacker lifts, tie down locations, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from SoCal Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 There were a few older 45-48' Great Danes and Dorsey's on Racing Junk a while back. Lot's of tractor pullers use them and they sell pretty cheap. Buy a 4 post lift and make yourself a stacker, the biggest thing to look for is one with side doors. Drop frame vans come in many flavors, the ones with 17.5 tires have the most inside height 125-127" I am using one as a shell for a 5th wheel camper with a garage. The trailer itself is going to be twice as heavy as a race car trailer and 10X as strong. Even a 30 year old trailer that is not rusted will be superior to a production car trailer. IMHO Steve 2005 Peterbilt 387-112 Baby Cat 9 speed U-shift 1996/2016 remod Teton Royal Atlanta 1996 Kentucky 48 single drop stacker garage project Pulls like a train, sounds like a plane....faster than a Cheetah sniffin cocaine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troymx576 Posted March 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 Thanks Steve. I will look into that also. On the 430 vs 630. Does anyone have any interior pictures where they have it setup so they can carry 4 people? Does the rear bed flip up and have seats there? All of the pictures I see have the bed. I see pictures for the 780 and that sometimes shows a table in the middle and two seats on the sides. Do people travel this way? Do the seats have seat belts? Thanks again for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moresmoke Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Troymx576 said: Thanks Steve. I will look into that also. On the 430 vs 630. Does anyone have any interior pictures where they have it setup so they can carry 4 people? Does the rear bed flip up and have seats there? All of the pictures I see have the bed. I see pictures for the 780 and that sometimes shows a table in the middle and two seats on the sides. Do people travel this way? Do the seats have seat belts? Thanks again for the help. I took out the factory bed support and put a Sofa bed in my 630. Sofa bed came from an RV supplier. Put a sheet of 1/2 plywood on top of the original base frame and mounted on top. Some people have removed every thing in the bunk and put in airride seats. I wanted to keep the bunk HVAC system so went this route. Built a short riser in front of the seats as it was a bit high. I also added the windows as I didn’t want the kids sitting in a cave. Mounted a shoulder belt on each end of the seat, and 2 lap belts in the middle. The lap belts are arranged so you can use the 2, or just as one. The seat wide enough for 4 little people, or three normal sized ones. The bed is not the most comfortable, but it is better than the ground when I am at an event and don’t want to go home til morning. The work station/dinette in the 730&780 Volvo’s does not have seat belts, and is stickered that you are not to ride at it. Due to the framework underneath, it only sits 2 comfortably, and the upper bunk (if equipped) is a bit too short to let you sit at the table while someone is in the bed. Kenworth is the only one I know of that built a rear seat with belts, and they are not very common. I had looked at some 730s when shopping, but there was not enough advantage for me to go that route. I was only shopping for the mid roof sleepers as I have a shed that is 12’ 6” tall and wanted to fit inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troymx576 Posted March 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Moresmoke said: I took out the factory bed support and put a Sofa bed in my 630. Sofa bed came from an RV supplier. Put a sheet of 1/2 plywood on top of the original base frame and mounted on top. Some people have removed every thing in the bunk and put in airride seats. I wanted to keep the bunk HVAC system so went this route. Built a short riser in front of the seats as it was a bit high. I also added the windows as I didn’t want the kids sitting in a cave. Mounted a shoulder belt on each end of the seat, and 2 lap belts in the middle. The lap belts are arranged so you can use the 2, or just as one. The seat wide enough for 4 little people, or three normal sized ones. The bed is not the most comfortable, but it is better than the ground when I am at an event and don’t want to go home til morning. The work station/dinette in the 730&780 Volvo’s does not have seat belts, and is stickered that you are not to ride at it. Due to the framework underneath, it only sits 2 comfortably, and the upper bunk (if equipped) is a bit too short to let you sit at the table while someone is in the bed. Kenworth is the only one I know of that built a rear seat with belts, and they are not very common. I had looked at some 730s when shopping, but there was not enough advantage for me to go that route. I was only shopping for the mid roof sleepers as I have a shed that is 12’ 6” tall and wanted to fit inside. Great info there and the details totally make sense. The sofa bed makes sense to me and having it big enough to fit people is very nice. I sleep on an air mattress in my trailer no when at events. When on the road and sleeping at truck stops I will sleep on the back bench seat on my f350 supercar. I can not imagine much being less comfortable than what I have now. I would think that setup and size could work with a 430 also, which is what I am currently leaning towards to get the maximum trailer length possible. Thanks for the info. Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 Troy The difference between the 430 and 630 is the wood frame that Moresmoke has on the floor. That 19 inches is not there in the 430 the bed pretty much touches the back of the front seats. Without losing the under bed storage, I think you could fit two in the rear so their legs end up between the front seats. What part of the country are you in? I’m going to Bellingham, Washington in May to retrieve my 430 and then drive back across Canada home. If you are in the area I would be willing to let you climb over my truck with a tape measure. Nigel 2006 Volvo VNL 430, 2006 smart cabrio cdi, 2000 Triple E Topaz 30' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troymx576 Posted March 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 Nigel, good info. I live in Va. little far, but a good idea. I also wonder if we could just make two seats and the backs towards the window area abs feet that go to the middle. I could add a small piece in the middle to make it a bed then. That is another possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPL Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 Troy I live in Chesapeake and have had my 610 for almost 8 years. Where has the time gone? Anyway it is titled as a MH. Only because it had the MH title coming out of Minnesota. i wanted to convert my own truck but the state won't let you. If it has been titled in Va as a truck, the state won't let you retitle it. You might be able to get it done if a shop has the ability/permit to retitle trucks/trailers. i really looked into this when i started looking and all i got was non returned calls.I do keep the truck here at the house with the the 5er(2017 43' Mesa Ridge) so for me parking isn't a issue. There is another HDT within 20 miles. He is also a Volvo. Where are you located? Do you go straight or turn left? I'm retired Navy and was born and raised in Roanoke. If you want to talk just pm me .I'll be at the ECR next month. I use to tow with a 550 but after towing with the Volvo I would never go back to a toy truck. Hope you are able to find the right truck. Pat The Old Sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troymx576 Posted March 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 hours ago, JPL said: Troy I live in Chesapeake and have had my 610 for almost 8 years. Where has the time gone? Anyway it is titled as a MH. Only because it had the MH title coming out of Minnesota. i wanted to convert my own truck but the state won't let you. If it has been titled in Va as a truck, the state won't let you retitle it. You might be able to get it done if a shop has the ability/permit to retitle trucks/trailers. i really looked into this when i started looking and all i got was non returned calls.I do keep the truck here at the house with the the 5er(2017 43' Mesa Ridge) so for me parking isn't a issue. There is another HDT within 20 miles. He is also a Volvo. Where are you located? Do you go straight or turn left? I'm retired Navy and was born and raised in Roanoke. If you want to talk just pm me .I'll be at the ECR next month. I use to tow with a 550 but after towing with the Volvo I would never go back to a toy truck. Hope you are able to find the right truck. Pat The Old Sailor Pat Really good info, but does depress me a bit. I wonder if it is an out of state title it could happen. I had my hopes of buying a truck and doing the work myself. I turn left and right, for really long periods of time, 7-24 hours at a time Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPL Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Troy As in road tracks! It took a while but I got the picture. I put another comment on your Va Truck topic so hope you get a chance to see it. Keep looking and talking to DMV. A truck will come your way. Come out to the ECR even for only a couple of days. Hope to see you and maybe the next time thru Lburg I'll call you. Pat The Old Sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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