Nanny&Timbo Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 Hi I am wondering if it is necessary to have a spearate brake system on the car I am towing behind my 32' motorhome using a blue ox towing system. The car will be a 2017 Hyumdai Elantra. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWharton Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 I believe it is required by state law, there may be 1 or 2 states that don't require brakes but that would be pretty limiting to your travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutspry Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 We saw dozens of cars being towed down the interstate yesterday with tow bars. They all obviously didn't have braking systems but it looked like they were headed to Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirakawa Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 21 minutes ago, SWharton said: I believe it is required by state law I'm not certain, but I believe it depends on the weight of the towed vehicle in the state being towed. Many states it is over 3,000 lbs. Texas is over 4,500 lbs. Quote Everybody wanna hear the truth, but everybody tell a lie. Everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody want to die. Albert King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbaraok Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, oldbutspry said: We saw dozens of cars being towed down the interstate yesterday with tow bars. They all obviously didn't have braking systems but it looked like they were headed to Mexico. And you determined that how? You can't see the supplemental braking system we have for our toad - it sits beneath the navigator's seat. There is nothing visible from outside. 39 minutes ago, Nanny&Timbo said: Hi I am wondering if it is necessary to have a spearate brake system on the car I am towing behind my 32' motorhome using a blue ox towing system. The car will be a 2017 Hyumdai Elantra. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks Some states require all cars to have supplemental system when being towed, some it is dependent upon wait. If going into Canada they require all to have it and (as I understand) are know to pull out the break-away to check to make sure it engages. Why would you not want to have one? Yes, I know they are expensive, but ..... Quote Barb & Dave O'Keeffe 2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWharton Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 I just picked this up on Brake Buddy. http://www.brakebuddy.com/towing-laws.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutspry Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Barbaraok said: And you determined that how? You can't see the supplemental braking system we have for our toad - it sits beneath the navigator's seat. There is nothing visible from outside. These were cars/pickups towing other cars/pickups, usually both somewhat wrecked. Yesterday we saw many groups of 3 or 4 of them headed towards Juarez. I'm guessing they are transporting them into Mexico or Central America. Technically they could have had braking systems but I'd bet anything they didn't. Edited October 14, 2019 by oldbutspry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWharton Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 I would imagine they didn't either. The point is you can't tell by just looking on the exterior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mptjelgin Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, oldbutspry said: These were cars/pickups towing other cars/pickups, usually both somewhat wrecked. Yesterday we saw many groups of 3 or 4 of them headed towards Juarez. I'm guessing they are transporting them into Mexico or Central America. Technically they could have had braking systems but I'd bet anything they didn't. We've seen those convoys of junkers headed south to Mexico for twenty years. I agree that it is highly unlikely that they had braking systems on the towed cars. Even the tow vehicles themselves often look like they barely run... Quote Mark & Teri 2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350 Mark & Teri's Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbaraok Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) And the banter about cars being towed south, with all of its connotations, have what to do with pulling a toad behind an RV? Edited October 14, 2019 by Barbaraok Quote Barb & Dave O'Keeffe 2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mptjelgin Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 Nada. Typical thread drift. Not a new thing on the internet...😀 Quote Mark & Teri 2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350 Mark & Teri's Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Nanny&Timbo said: I am wondering if it is necessary to have a spearate brake system on the car I am towing behind my 32' motorhome using a blue ox towing system. The answer just depends on how you define the word necessary. I have towed several different vehicles behind two different motorhomes and while I began towing without any braking on the vehicle I was towing, I soon realized that the real answer is one of safety. As far as I have ever found, there is no state law anywhere that specifically requires a auxiliary brakes on a car being towed as most of the laws are actually based on towing of trailers. While I have heard stories of "someone who knew a person" who was ticketed for not having braking, I have never known of anyone who was ticketed and I have never had an LEO check to see if I had an auxiliary brake system, not even when crossing the border into Canada. But never forget that the laws do clearly state that you must be able to stop before you hit someone or something and there is no question that an auxiliary brake system will enable you to stop more quickly. In addition, most such systems allow the driver to apply braking to the towed vehicle without using the motorhome brake, which can help to stop the vehicle from sliding in wet weather. I consider it foolish to tow with no braking because it is a safety issue. If someday a child darts out from between parked cars, you will want every bit of stopping ability that you can get and heavy vehicles just do not stop as well as a car. Quote Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutspry Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Barbaraok said: And the banter about cars being towed south, with all of its connotations, have what to do with pulling a toad behind an RV? I don't know if it is legal. Just pointing out it is commonly done - and with significantly smaller tow vehicles than the OP is talking about. Edited October 14, 2019 by oldbutspry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie&Jim's Carrilite Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, oldbutspry said: I don't know if it is legal. Just pointing out it is commonly done - and with significantly smaller tow vehicles than the OP is talking about. 3 hours ago, Barbaraok said: And the banter about cars being towed south, with all of its connotations, have what to do with pulling a toad behind an RV? The general rule of thumb for folks that are NOT transporting cars to Mexico, is that you can tow doubles as long as the First trailer connection is a 5th wheel type hitch. The 2nd trailer/toad has to have lighting and a braking system powered by the tow vehicle. The Gross tow rating of the Tow vehicle/truck is usually scrutinized harder if the combination is pulled over. Quote Jim's Adventures Old Spacecraft.... Who knows whats next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilso Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 Google knows. Quote Dave W. KE5GOH Stuck in the 70's --- In E. Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 When you tow a car behind a motorhome it is considered a trailer and all the applicable state trailering laws apply. As stated previously, each state sets the laws on when a trailer requires brakes. It is usually by the weight of the trailer. It is a safety issue and states do not want vehicles towing heavy loads without supplemental braking. Quote 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXiceman Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 I have heard the argument that it is a towed vehicle and not a trailer. Most motorhomes have a max towed weight that is unbraked. The motorhome has no way to determine if the 4000# load is a car or a load of bricks on a utility trailer. It is a towed load and thus all the states laws apply. Some states have unbraked load limit as low as 1500#. Ken Quote Amateur radio operator, 2023 Cougar 22MLS, 2022 F150 Lariat 4x4 Off Road, Sport trim <br />Travel with 1 miniature schnauzer, 1 standard schnauzer and one African Gray parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskoka Guy Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 20 hours ago, TXiceman said: I have heard the argument that it is a towed vehicle and not a trailer. Most motorhomes have a max towed weight that is unbraked. The motorhome has no way to determine if the 4000# load is a car or a load of bricks on a utility trailer. It is a towed load and thus all the states laws apply. Some states have unbraked load limit as low as 1500#. Ken My understanding of this rule is if the combined weight of the rv and towed vehicle doesn't exceed the gvwr of the rv. Therefore the rv is rated to stop up to the gross vehicle weight. I don't imagine many rvs have 4 or 5 thousand pounds of spare unused weight capacity, but I guess there might be some. That is one advantage of using a dolly. The dolly has the brakes on it. Edited October 16, 2019 by Muskoka Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXiceman Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Muskoka Guy said: My understanding of this rule is if the combined weight of the rv and towed vehicle doesn't exceed the gvwr of the rv. Therefore the rv is rated to stop up to the gross vehicle weight. I don't imagine many rvs have 4 or 5 thousand pounds of spare unused weight capacity, but I guess there might be some. That is one advantage of using a dolly. The dolly has the brakes on it. Guy, irregardless of your reasoning about GVWR and such, a state law will supersede that. As noted, many states require brakes on a towed load over 1500#. And as an RVer you are required to follow the laws of the states you travel through for such items as speed, length and weight. Ken Quote Amateur radio operator, 2023 Cougar 22MLS, 2022 F150 Lariat 4x4 Off Road, Sport trim <br />Travel with 1 miniature schnauzer, 1 standard schnauzer and one African Gray parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy-beast Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 Yes required. But more importantly it is just the right thing to do. So that you have an emergency braking system in the event that the toad separates from the MH, it will stop before taking out oncoming traffic. Quote 2020 Platinum F350 6.7L CC DRW, 2021 Riverstone Legacy 37mre 5th wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskoka Guy Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, TXiceman said: Guy, irregardless of your reasoning about GVWR and such, a state law will supersede that. As noted, many states require brakes on a towed load over 1500#. And as an RVer you are required to follow the laws of the states you travel through for such items as speed, length and weight. Ken I have just read that some where. Very doubtful anyone would or could use that as justification for not having brakes. The laws are different everywhere. Safer to just have them, and avoid getting a ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXiceman Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 I cannot understand the thought process that they buy a $100K plus motorhome and an expensive towed vehicle and then can't justify the $$$ to safety connect and control the towed car. If the auxiliary bakes in the car can stop you 6 inches shorter, it can be the difference between a safe stop and a wreck. Ken Quote Amateur radio operator, 2023 Cougar 22MLS, 2022 F150 Lariat 4x4 Off Road, Sport trim <br />Travel with 1 miniature schnauzer, 1 standard schnauzer and one African Gray parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sushidog Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 19 hours ago, filthy-beast said: Yes required. But more importantly it is just the right thing to do. So that you have an emergency braking system in the event that the toad separates from the MH, it will stop before taking out oncoming traffic. Yes. I agree. But these are two different things - one progressively applies the brakes on a toad to assist with braking and the other aggressively applies the toad's brakes if it separates from the toad vehicle. I believe the latter is required by law everywhere, as it should be. For years I used my under 3,000 lbs Chevrolet Cobalt as a tow vehicle to tow an Aliner that weighed around 1,700 lbs (over 1/2 the weight of the tow vehicle). In many states this light of a trailer would be exempt from a law requiring brakes, however considering the ratio of tow vehicle to towed weight I would have been foolish to tow it without electric brakes and a good proportional brake controller. Now I have a 22,000 lb MH with excellent ABS brakes on 6 braking wheels (the tag axle has brakes too) and am towing my little, under 3,000 lb Cobalt (that was my old tow vehicle) without brakes (other than a safety brake system that pulls a cable to activate its brakes in the unlikely event that the toad breaks free from the MH.) Again, I think it is the ratio of TV vs toad that is important. My toad is about 13% of the weight of the tow vehicle, not 58% as it was when I was previously towing with the car. Would progressive brakes on the toad stop the rig in less distance than not having them? Certainly, by a small amount - about the same as travelling empty as opposed to fully loaded. You can decide to either pay the $1,500 for a good progressive brake system on your toad or drive a little slower and leave a little more stopping distance between the car ahead. I'll choose the latter now that I'm retired and just seeing the sights with no hurry to get anywhere. If I'm doing 55 mph in a 65 mph zone just pass me if I'm too slow for you. If traffic is starting to back up then I'll courteously pull over and let them by. Now, If I were towing a 5,000 lb toad rather than a 2,900 lb one, or I had a significantly lighter TV, or one with marginal brakes or no braking tag axle, then my answer would be completely different. Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbaraok Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Tag axle on a 22K motorhome? How unusual. Quote Barb & Dave O'Keeffe 2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy-beast Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 I didn't know you could put a break-away system on a toad without also having a regular braking system. You should have both. My point was even if you think your MH can handle stopping both vehicle just fine add a full braking system for the safety of the rest of us on the road. Quote 2020 Platinum F350 6.7L CC DRW, 2021 Riverstone Legacy 37mre 5th wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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