Diesel Treatment

[mike5511]

14 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

It is added to replace the lost lubricity during the refining process that removes sulfur from diesel fuel, thus it is an additive. Anything above B2 is  considered biodiesel. I"ve burned as high as B20 diesel fuel, it runs great, but with a mileage loss. There used to be a filling station on I70 about 60 West of St. Louis that sold B100, I chickened out and didn't fill up there.

I've never had a problem with biodiesel as far as the tank and fuel system; but I have had to replace the OEM fuel distributor and lift pump in the past 24 years. Cummins said the old gaskets were not designed for biofuel.

The only thing I do to prevent microbial growth is keep fuel tank full when MH is stored, and never buy fuel at small low volume stations. I do that by patronizing truck stops instead of small stations.

You  cannot buy diesel fuel without at least B2 - 2% biofuel. If you're told a stations fuel does not contain any biofuel, ask what lubricity additive is in their fuel, because without a lubricity additive your engine is burning the fuel at the bottom of that list.

The lubricity factor is what I'm trying to determine. If the study mentioned is true, B2 is all you need to protect your engine. So now the next thing is, do you need to increase the Cetane? I know it can't hurt and should help, but do I need it pulling the loads I pull? Or, will I do just fine without it? And lastly, I'm thinking the regular use of BioBor jf, or similar, is just a good idea considering the fuel these days and the fact my truck sits more than it rolls. I've had a little experience running B20 when we went to the upper west coast a few years ago. It's a great cleaner, but if you don't use it regularly, it will clean your system out and stop up your fuel filters! And no way I would let it sit for several months in the tanks!

[palmeris]

I didnt realize that all ULSD had bio additives, thanks for the clarification. I now understand what you are saying that B20 is an additive, and that all ULSD has additives. Here is an  Interesting read  about that.

So if all ULSD fuel has at least 2% ( B2) then additional lubrication should'nt be required if you believe the government agencies? . However I will continue my regiment of supplemental additives as that gives piece of mind, if nothing other than a lighter wallet

[mike5511]

11 hours ago, palmeris said:

I didnt realize that all ULSD had bio additives, thanks for the clarification. I now understand what you are saying that B20 is an additive, and that all ULSD has additives. Here is an  Interesting read  about that.

So if all ULSD fuel has at least 2% ( B2) then additional lubrication should'nt be required if you believe the government agencies? . However I will continue my regiment of supplemental additives as that gives piece of mind, if nothing other than a lighter wallet

I'm not totally convinced. I asked the place I like fill to up what percentage of bio they had in their fuel, and the owner told me, "none"!  Did he mean none above the 5% amount? I will ask next time and see what he says.

[lappir]

8 hours ago, mike5511 said:

I'm not totally convinced. I asked the place I like fill to up what percentage of bio they had in their fuel, and the owner told me, "none"!  Did he mean none above the 5% amount? I will ask next time and see what he says.

I'm pretty sure he was correct in saying none, especially if it's not one of the big truck stop companies. 

Rod

[Ray,IN]

On 7/23/2024 at 2:07 PM, mike5511 said:

The lubricity factor is what I'm trying to determine. If the study mentioned is true, B2 is all you need to protect your engine. So now the next thing is, do you need to increase the Cetane? I know it can't hurt and should help, but do I need it pulling the loads I pull? Or, will I do just fine without it? And lastly, I'm thinking the regular use of BioBor jf, or similar, is just a good idea considering the fuel these days and the fact my truck sits more than it rolls. I've had a little experience running B20 when we went to the upper west coast a few years ago. It's a great cleaner, but if you don't use it regularly, it will clean your system out and stop up your fuel filters! And no way I would let it sit for several months in the tanks!

Our MH sat parked for 2 years with a partial tank of B2 or more, I had added BioBor to the tank initially. I've since refilled the tank and haven't had a fuel problem so far..

Biofuel does not separate like  methanol separates from gasoline.

This pdf explains a lot: https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/EnergySavers_Biodiesel_Factsheet-v2.pdf

Edited July 26 by Ray,IN

[mike5511]

14 hours ago, lappir said:

I'm pretty sure he was correct in saying none, especially if it's not one of the big truck stop companies. 

Rod

T/A at Mt. Vernon, MO on I-44

[mike5511]

13 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

Our MH sat parked for 2 years with a partial tank of B2 or more, I had added BioBor to the tank initially. I've since refilled the tank and haven't had a fuel problem so far..

Biofuel does not separate like  methanol separates from gasoline.

This pdf explains a lot: https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/EnergySavers_Biodiesel_Factsheet-v2.pdf

I'd say the BioBor saved you on that one.

[Danfreda1]

On 7/26/2024 at 10:54 PM, mike5511 said:

T/A at Mt. Vernon, MO on I-44

That’s a busy truck stop. Glad they built the new one. That old one was fun to get out of sometimes. 

[Ray,IN]

On 7/26/2024 at 9:37 AM, lappir said:

I'm pretty sure he was correct in saying none, especially if it's not one of the big truck stop companies. 

Rod

ALL diesel fuel today contains B2 minimum, anything below B5 is not labeled biodiesel per federal law. If any station owner says their fuel does not contain any biodiesel to replace lost lubricity during the refining process that removes sulfur, ask what lubricity additive is in their fuel. If they cannot answer, they are ignorant of the facts.

reference:  https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/BIOD

One states law:

Biodiesel Use Requirement

All diesel-powered motor vehicles, light trucks, and equipment owned or leased by a state agency must operate using diesel fuel that contains a minimum of 2% biodiesel (B2). For the purpose of this requirement, biodiesel includes renewable diesel and other renewable, biodegradable mono alkyl ester combustible fuel derived from biomass. The Department of Finance and Administration may grant waivers to the B2 requirement for state agency vehicles if the fuel is not available in certain geographic areas, the fuel price is at least $0.15 more per gallon then the petroleum equivalent, or compliance with the standard is not otherwise economically feasible.

(Reference Arkansas Code 15-13-101 and 15-13-102)

 

More Laws and Incentives

To find laws and incentives for other alternative fuels and advanced vehicles, search all laws and incentives.

Edited July 28 by Ray,IN

[palmeris]

The article I linked above goes into great detail about ulsd

Edited July 28 by palmeris

[mike5511]

13 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

ALL diesel fuel today contains B2 minimum, anything below B5 is not labeled biodiesel per federal law. If any station owner says their fuel does not contain any biodiesel to replace lost lubricity during the refining process that removes sulfur, ask what lubricity additive is in their fuel. If they cannot answer, they are ignorant of the facts.

reference:  https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/BIOD

One states law:

Biodiesel Use Requirement

All diesel-powered motor vehicles, light trucks, and equipment owned or leased by a state agency must operate using diesel fuel that contains a minimum of 2% biodiesel (B2). For the purpose of this requirement, biodiesel includes renewable diesel and other renewable, biodegradable mono alkyl ester combustible fuel derived from biomass. The Department of Finance and Administration may grant waivers to the B2 requirement for state agency vehicles if the fuel is not available in certain geographic areas, the fuel price is at least $0.15 more per gallon then the petroleum equivalent, or compliance with the standard is not otherwise economically feasible.

(Reference Arkansas Code 15-13-101 and 15-13-102)

 

More Laws and Incentives

To find laws and incentives for other alternative fuels and advanced vehicles, search all laws and incentives.

I don't buy fuel in Arkansas, even though I live here. What additives, if any, do you put in that 2000 Cummins of yours?

[mike5511]

15 hours ago, Danfreda1 said:

That’s a busy truck stop. Glad they built the new one. That old one was fun to get out of sometimes. 

Yes, the new one is really nice! 

[mike5511]

On 7/25/2024 at 11:51 AM, palmeris said:

I didnt realize that all ULSD had bio additives, thanks for the clarification. I now understand what you are saying that B20 is an additive, and that all ULSD has additives. Here is an  Interesting read  about that.

So if all ULSD fuel has at least 2% ( B2) then additional lubrication should'nt be required if you believe the government agencies? . However I will continue my regiment of supplemental additives as that gives piece of mind, if nothing other than a lighter wallet

That was an interesting read. What I took from it is, you better not count on the bulk/retail outlets and go ahead and add your own lubricity additive!........and a biocide.

[Ray,IN]

11 hours ago, mike5511 said:

I don't buy fuel in Arkansas, even though I live here. What additives, if any, do you put in that 2000 Cummins of yours?

Just enter the state name in the search box to read their law.  I use no additives other than BioBor during long-term storage  as a precaution.

Some years ago I did ask about biodiesel content and the attendant said none; I then asked what additive he used to replace the lost sulfur. I got that deer in the headlights look, so just walked away. I don't remember where we were, but it was back when Mexico didn't sell biodiesel fuel yet.

[Chalkie]

On 7/28/2024 at 10:38 AM, Ray,IN said:

ALL diesel fuel today contains B2 minimum, anything below B5 is not labeled biodiesel per federal law. If any station owner says their fuel does not contain any biodiesel to replace lost lubricity during the refining process that removes sulfur, ask what lubricity additive is in their fuel. If they cannot answer, they are ignorant of the facts.

reference:  https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/BIOD

 

Anything below B5 may not require labeling by federal law but state laws may vary. For example, using the provided link (nice find BTW), one finds that Texas requires labeling the blend on the pumps in order to claim tax exemptions for the non fuel taxed portion, i.e., the percentage of biofuel or ethanol. So I do know what the percentage is when buying gas or diesel. It also explains the high price of pure gasoline, no tax breaks.

That link also happened to explain something I had wondered about. All of the school buses in the local school district run on LPG but that is a requirement of Texas law. All public entity fleets that have 15 or more vehicles must run on alternate fuels such as B20, E85 or LPG.

[rickeieio]

4 hours ago, Chalkie said:

It also explains the high price of pure gasoline,

Well, not to derail the subject, but "pure gasoline" is not sold in gas stations.  Pure gas has an octane rating far lower than what we buy and needs some sort of additive to bring the octane up to an acceptable level.  So, whether it's ethanol or some other additive, it's there.

[Darryl&Rita]

We have an oilfield connection, via which a couple 1 m3 totes of used hydraulic fluid finds it's way to the farm. This is eco-friendly, meaning it's plant based. Turns out, it burns pretty clean, too. Slippery? Check. Combustible? With enough pressure, check. Free? Big check. We started using it in the oldest equipment first, but it's hard to tell if a 250 Cummins/ 5&4 combo is any quieter with it in the tank, nevermind the 3408 Steiger tractor. We don't talk about the Jimmy, cause nobody in earshot can hear you. The 12 valve Cummins definitely quiets with some hydraulic fluid in the tank. We don't run it in anything DEF/SCR equipped, but have heard of others running it without harm. By the time we're done mixing pump fuel with the hydraulic, we're probably B50 or 60. All the old iron seems to appreciate it.

[mike5511]

10 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

Just enter the state name in the search box to read their law.  I use no additives other than BioBor during long-term storage  as a precaution.

Some years ago I did ask about biodiesel content and the attendant said none; I then asked what additive he used to replace the lost sulfur. I got that deer in the headlights look, so just walked away. I don't remember where we were, but it was back when Mexico didn't sell biodiesel fuel yet.

In that article linked to above it said that some bulk plants are using other things, such as animal fat, to get the tax break because of a shortage of plant based bio. Thus, lubricity could be compromised. Better to just add some yourself I think to be sure.

[Chalkie]

On 7/29/2024 at 5:53 PM, rickeieio said:

Well, not to derail the subject, but "pure gasoline" is not sold in gas stations.

Well, true, I should have worded that better. What I meant was "no ethanol added" gasoline. 

[Ray,IN]

20 hours ago, mike5511 said:

In that article linked to above it said that some bulk plants are using other things, such as animal fat, to get the tax break because of a shortage of plant based bio. Thus, lubricity could be compromised. Better to just add some yourself I think to be sure.

According to that link animal fat and cooking oil is biodiesel.

[mike5511]

4 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

According to that link animal fat and cooking oil is biodiesel.

Correct, but what I understood was, that worked for the tax credit  but it's lubricity value was questioned. (I was going to go back and re-read it, but I can't remember which link it was and it's late, and I'm lazy..........)

 

[rickeieio]

17 hours ago, Chalkie said:

Well, true, I should have worded that better. What I meant was "no ethanol added" gasoline. 

Chalkie, please don't think I was picking on you.  I just wanted to point out that. like many things, the term "pure gas" gets tossed about so often it is accepted as true.  There are plenty of other terms that fit in that folder.

Back to the original subject, there are two trucking companies within 2 miles of my farm that run fleets of newer PACCAR trucks.  All of them use DEF, and all of them get filled from a bulk tank, without issues.

Which leads me to realize that most of the warnings I here about sourcing DEF from one place or another are anecdotal, third hand or worse.  I'll just keep on, keep'n on.