RV purchase through an LLC

[RPF]

I'm investigating various ways to purchase an RV.  Does anyone have experience buying an RV through an LLC established in another state (Montana).  Suggested lawyer?  Pros, cons, legality...anything.  When the right floorplan comes around we'd like to be ready to purchase.  Thanks.

[sandsys]

21 hours ago, RPF said:

I'm investigating various ways to purchase an RV.  Does anyone have experience buying an RV through an LLC established in another state (Montana).  Suggested lawyer?  Pros, cons, legality...anything.  When the right floorplan comes around we'd like to be ready to purchase.  Thanks.

I have not done it but my understanding is an LLC is a business which has all kinds of implications for insurance, licensing, etc. Please, research carefully.

Linda

[Kirk W]

All About Montana LLCs and RV Ownership

I have not used an LLC but did at one time look into it and the article above seems pretty accurate. It has been a long time since we did this but the attorney who we were in touch with was the registered agent for two friends or ours who each had a Montana LLC. That attorney advised us not to go that route because it would not have saved us enough to cover the cost of setting it up but we already had our RV. That was long enough ago that most of my information would be dated or even inaccurate. The one thing that I do recall which still probably applies is that you need to be careful about spending too long in one locations with one because all states have laws about how long a vehicle can remain in a state before it must be registered there. Our friends who used them were both fulltimers and never stayed in one location for much more than a month. There are states that are much more careful about this because their residents try to use one to avoid paying the taxes on them even while living and working in a particular state. 

[DanZemke]

You may well get away with it, but I chose not to do it.

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AI Overview

There are a number of problems with using a Montana LLC for vehicle registration, including:

Tax evasion
        Some states consider using a Montana LLC to avoid paying taxes in their home state to be tax evasion. States are increasing their efforts to combat this practice, and some have implemented programs to check for Montana license plates.

Insurance issues
        Insurers may be wary of covering vehicles that are registered in one state but primarily used in another. This can lead to higher premiums or denied coverage.

Strained relationships
        Using a Montana LLC to avoid paying taxes can strain relationships with neighbors and other RV owners who pay their taxes.
    Criminal and monetary penalties
        Individuals who take advantage of the Montana LLC loophole may face criminal and monetary punishments, including paying back taxes, heavy fines, and even jail time.

Montana has no sales tax and no vehicle emissions testing, making it an attractive option for out-of-state residents to register their vehicles. However, states that have a sales tax also have a use tax, which applies to the storage, use, or consumption of a taxable item or service.

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Video: The Montana License Plate Scam - Lehto's Law Ep. 5.16

Edited October 5 by DanZemke
Added AI search results

[RPF]

21 hours ago, Kirk W said:

All About Montana LLCs and RV Ownership

I have not used an LLC but did at one time look into it and the article above seems pretty accurate. It has been a long time since we did this but the attorney who we were in touch with was the registered agent for two friends or ours who each had a Montana LLC. That attorney advised us not to go that route because it would not have saved us enough to cover the cost of setting it up but we already had our RV. That was long enough ago that most of my information would be dated or even inaccurate. The one thing that I do recall which still probably applies is that you need to be careful about spending too long in one locations with one because all states have laws about how long a vehicle can remain in a state before it must be registered there. Our friends who used them were both fulltimers and never stayed in one location for much more than a month. There are states that are much more careful about this because their residents try to use one to avoid paying the taxes on them even while living and working in a particular state. 

Kirk, thanks SO MUCH for the link.  I'll continue to investigate both sides of this subject but that info is a terrific start.  Safe Travels

[RPF]

20 hours ago, DanZemke said:

You may well get away with it, but I chose not to do it.

==============================

AI Overview

There are a number of problems with using a Montana LLC for vehicle registration, including:

Tax evasion
        Some states consider using a Montana LLC to avoid paying taxes in their home state to be tax evasion. States are increasing their efforts to combat this practice, and some have implemented programs to check for Montana license plates.

Insurance issues
        Insurers may be wary of covering vehicles that are registered in one state but primarily used in another. This can lead to higher premiums or denied coverage.

Strained relationships
        Using a Montana LLC to avoid paying taxes can strain relationships with neighbors and other RV owners who pay their taxes.
    Criminal and monetary penalties
        Individuals who take advantage of the Montana LLC loophole may face criminal and monetary punishments, including paying back taxes, heavy fines, and even jail time.

Montana has no sales tax and no vehicle emissions testing, making it an attractive option for out-of-state residents to register their vehicles. However, states that have a sales tax also have a use tax, which applies to the storage, use, or consumption of a taxable item or service.

----------------------------------------------------

Video: The Montana License Plate Scam - Lehto's Law Ep. 5.16

Dan,  thanks so much for the link, this is EXACTLY the informatin I need to weigh when making the decision.  This forum is a great service for questions like these.  The Lehto link was valuable.  I'll continue the research and thanks again.

[Kirk W]

If you will be fulltime the issue of registration is much less an issue. No state requires visitors to change registration so as long as you do not violate any state's laws you have no problem. 

[RPF]

3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

If you will be fulltime the issue of registration is much less an issue. No state requires visitors to change registration so as long as you do not violate any state's laws you have no problem. 

We won't be bringing the coach back to our state when we purchase.  We will sell the house and be full time so this may be a worthwhile strategy.  We'll have to pick a state to domicile and that too will fit into the equation.  Thank you once again.

[Chalkie]

You need an attorney to advise you in detail the advantages and disadvantages of a Montana LLC. Look for a company that gets good reviews and then pay them as it will likely be money well spent. Have you considered a trust as well? If you are going to change domicile what advantage does that LLC give you over domicile in an RV friendly state such as Texas?

[RPF]

Hey Chalkie, I intend to use an attorney in this endevour and thank you for the suggestion.

[palmeris]

Our domicile is Florida and we did extensive research into the Montana LLC,- where you choose to domicile plays a huge role in the decision. 

We went the route and established our Montana LLC earlier this year.  The wife and I are the managers of the LLC. The LLC has given perpetual  permission to the managers for all  matters concerning the disposition, use, and operation of all the LLC assets, regardless of there physical location.  

We purchased an HDT and it was converted to a motorhome,  was delivered to us in Kansas with a KS 90 day registration, and it was titled as a motorhome to the Montana LLC which legally owns the asset.

After delivery of the vehicle, It was brought to our Florida domicile where it is "garaged" and the motorhome was then  registered in Montana to the address of our LLC , and now wears Montana plates.

 It is currently insured by the LLC through progressive as a commercial vehicle , not for hire private use only, and they figured the insurance rates based on the Florida domicile location. So they know who owns it, who operates it, what it is used for and where it is physically located.

Once the LLC purchases the Trailer that will be towed, we are going fulltime and the insurance will be changed to a bundled full timer package that includes the truck, trailer, motorcycle, cars, and liability coverages for the full time lifestyle through Miller insurance agency , again paid for by the LLC. Our domicile will remain in Florida. 

We also registered as a foreign LLC in Florida, allowing our Montana LLC to legally transact business within Florida. We took this extra step to conform to the state of Florida laws and it negates any timed restraints of how long an asset is in / out of the state regardless of the amount of time spent at any Florida location, including our domicile.

The Primary advantage in going this route was simply the sales tax avoidance.  The amount of taxes we saved on the HDT  paid for the LLC formation and filing fees, as well as the registration and 1st year of insurance. Where it's really going to be apparent is when we purchase the trailer and avoid paying the sales tax on it.

The secondary, but still very important advantage for us is that the HDT is now titled as a recreation vehicle that can legally tow ( Florida has some title restrictions is this regard which are very biased in my opinion and a completely different topic of discussion)  and our domiciled standard issue Florida drivers license allows us to drive and operate any recreation vehicle regardless of weight.

What we have done is legal and is considered tax avoidance.  There are no criminal or monetary penalty implications as there is nothing done illegally. Tax evasion is what is illegal, and If a relationship is somehow strained because we did our research and saved money.....sorry.

Montana

Registered agent

Foreign LLC

Florida Sales and use

We have a binder that stays in the HDT, it has copies of all the filings, documents, registrations, and statues we conform to in case an official needs to be educated.  

Do your own research , don't take this as legal advice. It is simply what we did for our situation

Edited Sunday at 02:28 PM by palmeris
link

[rickeieio]

21 hours ago, palmeris said:

21 hours ago, palmeris said:

We purchased an HDT and it was converted to a motorhome,  was delivered to us in Kansas with a KS 90 day registration, and it was titled as a motorhome to the Montana LLC which legally owns the asset.

You might one day run into a little snag in this plan.  LLC means "Limited Liability Corporation", which is considered a commercial entity.  Therefore, your truck and trailer will be commercial, regardless of what stickers you might slap on the side, or what the insurance folks say.  Do lots of folks get away with this?  Sure.  But I don't want to be a test case.

[palmeris]

9 hours ago, rickeieio said:

You might one day run into a little snag in this plan.  LLC means "Limited Liability Corporation", which is considered a commercial entity.  Therefore, your truck and trailer will be commercial, regardless of what stickers you might slap on the side, or what the insurance folks say.  Do lots of folks get away with this?  Sure.  But I don't want to be a test case.

 

HI Rickeieio

We are well aware of what an LLC is but not sure what little snag you think our future may hold? Our corporation legally owns the assets, which are legally titled and registered as recreational vehicles. These assets are not for hire and don't generate income, nor does the corporation.  The assets are fully disclosed and declared per the classification they are used for and insured accordingly. The corporation is also registered as a foreign LLC where required by law.

We are really not concerned about any sticker slapped on the side, or lack thereof for that matter, so why should we care if they are considered commercial or private and, exactly what is it that you think we are getting away with? 

Please don't take this personal as we have never met.  In my opinion, it's comments like " folks get away with it" or  "you may well get away with it but I chose not to" implies that a law, or rule, or morale is being broken and the person making such a comment is high and mighty above doing something so despicable- but in reality, again my opinion, those type of comments relate to the strained relationship statement made in the above post.....so I am sorry.

  The OP had asked if anyone have experience buying an RV through an LLC established in another state (Montana) and I shared ours. Obviously your case, as with anyone else's, is going to be different from ours and everyone should do their own research and not trust a you tube video or an internet posting.

[rickeieio]

Please don't shoot the messenger.....  I responded because I'd had the conversation with a couple of DOT officers ( one in Texas, one in Indiana ), who pointed out that since the vehicle is owned by a "company", it therefore could be considered commercial.  I choose to not put myself in a position where I might have to argue the case along the roadside.

So, if the insurance company says it's okay, your accountant says it's okay, and the bmv says it's okay, the person who pulls us over on the road can still make us have a bad day.  It's a broad gray area.  How dark gray do you want to be?

So, if a trusted DOT authority says it's considered commercial, the words "folks get away with it", is, in my eyes, a fact, not just an implication.

[2gypsies]

You can't imagine how many Texans have LLCs!!  .... and how many Escapees have LLC's.   I've never heard of anyone getting called on it.